Debate #28 - Notes
Debate 28 - Notes
Connection between speakers – technology needs a target to work to. Need to agree a sustainable target has to be bottom line.
If assuming BAU at 3% - won’t be 3% for long. Total planet resources won’t support it
Donate from profits of trade
Facing another 1929 crash. Developed world falsely affluent – west owned by the Chinese. False economics. Talk more pragmatically about how we trade carbon. About the developing world picks up the pieces. Expect shift to the left in developed world and more ‘New Deals’. Build true consensus. Look at energy and economic efficiency of the globe.
Why growth at any cost?
Technical fixes are needed and need to operate within the framework of C&C.
What about aviation? Just in time culture has huge impacts on transport. Need to say yes to green technology but need to look at the other areas. The technology fix promise is always 20 years away. Technology involves built-in obsolescence
Talking about future generations. Need to see climate change as a human rights issue and inter-generational crime issue. Cognoscenti need to go out and convert. We are guilty of a crime and implied death.
We are in despair and denial – what about love, hope and trust. Missing half the subject
Clearly have got to have targets that are easy to measure (not temperature change)
Going to be mass migrations of people
UK gov now realising that climate change and Africa agenda related – Africa turning into an Australia – live on the edges
US military working on aviation bio-fuels – only way to get bio-fuels ?
What level of fuels will bio-mass support. Keep liquid fuels for aviation
3 sided concern: Africa, poverty and climate change C&C is a means of addressing all 3. It is about a race to get out of carbon to have permits to sell
Starting from the wrong assumptions
Different views of future – one where developed countries still on top giving solutions – another …
Poverty of vision. In the Middle Ages double entry book keeping invented. When it comes to carbon accounting, we are at an equivalent level of nascence of a new process . We have not counted the carbon effects of the technology fixes. We have a very poor understanding of CO2 emissions – what’s the carbon footprint of a meat diet. Sony said they are going to cut emissions and by extension their customers’ emissions
Precursor of technology fixes is that they need to be placed within the C&C framework.
No grounds for optimism – all about how soon things get awful
2 things need to happen to reduce CO2 emissions and .. gov and consumers. We are coming from positions that will not engage these groups. Need to engage the people who can make a difference
Western democracy poorly suited to this sort of problem. Important role for the professional institutions (global bodies)– first duty is to society. A lot of mental acceptance of these options. Huge opportunity for the professions to come together and speak with a common voice. Likely to be welcomed by government.
In Nairobi greatest growth industry as been aid and NGOs. Buildings built up to independence were low energy and simple. New buildings are complicated and energy intensive. Have gone backwards. Developing countries investing in Jurassic infrastructure. Lack of capital. Don’t need more experts
Dongtan exemplar for more efficient energy. How do you get the other parties involved to buy in. You need enlightened self-interest. Need to appeal on more mundane level. How to get down to the nitty gritty.
We need to drive the debate by passion. Maths better than economics. Issue of ethics and waking up of institutions. Why are British buildings so awful. There is always enough money for war.
Cf. Happiness – no correlation between happiness and economic growth once a basic level of security is reached. Not about 3% pa.
Institutions need to worry about the renegotiation of Kyoto.
Method not just the mindset of engagement. G8 last year: Africa and climate change. What was not noticed was 25 of world top blue chip corporations consigned a statement saying governments come together agree a concentration based climate change framework based on common metrics. CIBSE signed up. Need a clear method and drop, at headline level, the politics of blame. If not, too little too late.
What comes after Kyoto is crucial. Important as a first step. Countries recognised a problem and came up with an inadequate solution.
Climate change is a war. Need a cross-party consensus – as there tends to be in times of war. Need long-term policies – longer than political process. Lots of things individuals can do about it. Politicians respond to their postbags. UK has not responded with actions – being tougher with industry.
Convergence is central. Might be by different routes. Medium-term problems only pertinent when you have enough to eat.
Simultaneous policy — www.simpol.org
Need to attend to which institutions – need the breadth of institutions and a common position
Are we saying the institutions to be put under pressure (including enlightened self-interest) by the Edge to take C&C seriously – the high level agenda is absolutely core to what they are about - YES
Need missions from Africa to tell us how to deal with limited resources
Input to the Stern review to get the funding in place plus lots of other initiatives
Colin Challen’s APCCG taking evidence until 9 May